1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Please note that most notices can be dismissed permanently by clicking the "X" in the top right of the notices. If there is no X, it cannot be dismissed. This notice can be dismissed, try it out!!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guests may use the support tickets navigation tab to request help if they for whatever reason cannot register to the forums.

    In your ticket, submit the forum username you have/want, the email you have/want, and the issue in clear detail.

    In addition, when registering, ALWAYS ensure you register with your Byond key/name.

  4. The forum rules have been updated and will now be enforced instead of the old set.
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Server Status:

    Server UP!!!
    byond://game.yogstation.net:4133

    Server Stuck and need a reboot? Send an email to Yogstation13bot and the council will try and respond ASAP.
    Alternatively, email [email protected] for the same effect. This is a monitored email account.

Monkey (820), john lyon, phil mccrakan - report by bachri

Discussion in 'Resolved' started by Bachri, Apr 19, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bachri

    Bachri Active Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    36
    BYOND key(s) of player(s) complaining about:


    Their IC name(s):
    Monkey (820), John Lyon, Phil McCrakan

    Your BYOND key:
    Bachri

    Your IC name:
    Tessa Maclagan

    Date/time of incident:
    4/19/2017 3:00-3:30 PM

    What is your timezone?
    (UTC-5:00) Eastern Time (US/Canada)

    Round number
    8918

    Describe the incident:
    So I start off as a standard Chaplain. No antag status, nothing special there. It's a Wizard round, so some pretty interesting things happened. First off, I went straight to the HoP's office to get my ID Job Title changed. When he ineptly changed my Name instead and doubled the time, Wizard BS dropped a Mosin and a Wand of Polymorph at my feet. When that happened, the HoP suddenly started going off about permits and that I had to hand it over. I refused, since it was within reason that everybody else had a gun and magic and I refused to be left defenseless should the graytiders (A plague of which have been infesting this server as of late) decide to get trigger happy.

    Only problem with this was the HoP still had my ID and refused to give it back. So I admit, I kinda got a little angry about that. After he started flashing me and calling Security, closing the Lineup shutters, I jumped onto the table and started threatening him with the Polymorph Wand. I told him that if he did not return it, I would polymorph him. He refused to return the ID. Instead of stunning me with his Egun and using his Zipties on me, he chose to drop his Blastdoors on me. Once he did that, I busted the Lineup window to get out of the line and ran off.

    I later talked to the Detective at his office and asked him to alert the rest of Security about the HoP having my ID and crushing me in his blastdoors. Apparently, however, this was not reported properly. After nearly 45 minutes (approximation based on my own memory) my ID was still not back on me. So when I spotted the HoP in the Kitchen, I took the opportunity to make good on my promise, and shot him with one Polymorph bolt, which turns him into a Xenomorph. After some childish "I told you so"'s, I start running when he chooses to start attacking me, for which a Mediborg gets involved and is forced to attack him in return.

    We end up coming across the HoS (John Lyon) and the Xeno HoP immediately starts accusing me of be of being a Wizard. This is of course incorrect, though it should be noted that the Wizard this round had taken to using Bodyswap. The discussion goes on for some time but I hand over both the Wand and Mosin to the HoS, who uses the Polymorph Wand to attempt to turn the HoP back into a Human, but only succeeds in making him into a Monkey before the Charges run out. Stuff happens to the AI before they can finish on what to do with me. I go back to where I Polymorphed the HoP and recover his Headset, then I throw it at him since he refused to pick it up the first time.

    After awhile I hear on the radio the HoS or some other security member (Hard to keep track of everything) asks me to peacefully come to the Brig. I take a little while, but I relent, passing the HoS near the Bridge and actually having to remind him that he wanted to see me. So he stuns me, cuffs me and drags me out. After a long period of deliberating with the Monkey over what to do with me, he just hands me over to the Monkey and basically tells him to do whatever with me. I then run out of the Brig at the first opportunity, as I didn't exactly want to be handled by the person that would have the strongest bias against me and isn't even an Officer to begin with. So I get away, I uncuff myself, and then I run straight back toward the Brig with the cuffs so that I can at least TRY to speak directly to the HoS without this Monkey, who still at this point has not even tried to go to Genetics to get himself fixed, yelling over me and filling everybody's chat with lies.

    Gravity is out. Somehow end up in the Perma Wing. Captain (Phil McCrakan) is there, and this is his first introduction to ANY of this. He has no idea what's going on. He asks who is being Executed. The Monkey points at me. Captain stuns me down and puts on cuffs, then asks why I'm being Executed, so he has literally no idea what is going on. I try to explain it, the Monkey shouts over me again, claiming that I am a Wizard. Get dragged into Transfers, I beg for my life, ignored completely. Shot in head, GG no RE. Sorry for the fast explanation at the end here, but I'm tired of typing this up at this point.

    BASICALLY, the Captain had no idea what was going on and simply TRUSTED that I was a Wizard with no evidence, allowing me to be Executed on a flimsy basis.

    The HoS was complicit in this even after I did everything within my power (within reason) to work with him after I had done what I said I would do. I turned in my Gun and Wand directly to him once I was done with them and even returned his cuffs when I refused to let the Monkey HoP decide my fate initially.

    The HoP was within his rights to brig me and even to hold a grudge, but to have me Executed was well beyond too far for this. Especially when he could have been fixed up by Genetics at pretty much any time.

    SO, did I do anything wrong here? Of course I did. "1.3.1: Do not act as a greytiding wizard/Deathsquad during wizard gamemode. If you acquire guns or magical items during a wizard round and you are NOT given any objectives by the game, do not use the given items for killing, griefing and greytiding, as it will result in a ban."

    However, I will say again that when the HoP locked me in his line I told him that I would Polymorph him if he did not return my ID. He did not return my ID, therefore I Polymorphed him. It was a threat, a possibility that he accepted. Now I'm not going to say that I don't deserve punishment for this if an Admin deems that I do. I will readily and silently accept a note or ban should it be a fair consequence.

    That being said, "2.4.5: The HoP should not involve himself in security matters, unless he is acting captain or an emergency forces him to. Using the disabler he spawns with for self-defense is fine, but hunting people down and arresting them is not. That’s security’s job."

    After I had Polymorphed him, he was the only one pushing for getting me brigged/Executed, and was solidly involved during the Execution as well. In addition, he should not have trapped me in his Lineup in the first place.

    As a final note, I'm just going to say that nothing I did warranted an Execution. Polymorphing him did not kill him/remove him from the round, did not cause any ACTUAL harm (except to myself and himself by extension during his time as a Xeno) and he could have gotten turned back at any time. My actions were dickish, yet prompted. I will accept any outcome from this whether I am punished, he is punished, or nobody is punished.

    Thanks for reading, sorry for the wall.

    Screenshots/logs:
    https://gyazo.com/022bcbb2f152d6d98bf312f07eb61336 - Ahelp Ticket

    https://gyazo.com/f1144703107e1a0dab2b2281a8556cc1 - Earliest point in the logs at time of screencapping

    https://gyazo.com/b4a4f7663a40a32f4c4c29eb177b6ad8 - Me being needlessly smug. Sorry about that.

    https://gyazo.com/cb5f70085fb06e7c94344fbc9007fab1 - Me telling Security what was going on.

    https://gyazo.com/4912334f154e493f36fa033995c5eb45 - Giving myself up after being told to peacefully report to the brig and being accused of wizardry.

    https://gyazo.com/21ce3c69ead339403148a9cd7d604981 - Monkey still hasn't gone to the Geneticist.

    https://gyazo.com/be70727e905336f61e9d15e3a1466ea9 - The execution.

    https://gyazo.com/a064400a799fd52f6ec912eec72a484c - Final words from the Moderator
     
  2. Alexandria404

    Alexandria404 Moderator Forum Moderator Veteran Player

    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    45
    To start it off i did not read all your logs or your full explanation, as I lack the mental capacity at this hour. Furthermore all the information stated here was not apparent at the time of the round, so sorry if I miss something that has been added here.
    However I want to give a quick explanation concerning my reasoning here.

    As I explained in the ticket, I feel it was justified.
    From an IC perspective being turned into an animal is no small matter at all, and if it was not a monkey in my mind similar to murder and even then (imagine becoming a spider IRL). Now it is arguable purely from an outside perspective, that monkeys can be made human again in this game and that he was not removed from the round.
    I feel from an IC perspective this was warranted, and another admin agreed with me on it, however we were both unsure to what extent the rules really cover this issue.
    Looking at it all from a holistic point of view, you both were somewhat in the right and somewhat in the wrong, both being kind of dickish and even on your end breaking the rules as you pointed out.
    In this case as the HoP was the one harmed I feel it is alright for him to act along the lines of security, as he did.
    Thus I handled it the way I did, and I hope you don´t feel personally wronged as I tried my best to handle it fairly and impartial with the help of another admin.

    I sadly haven´t gotten any response to my original request for a second opinion in the admin chat at the time of writing this, and only got one after PMing another admin.
    No notes or punishments were issued in this case for either side.
    If somebody has a differing opinion feel free to say so, as my request for a second opinion makes it clear that I am not fully sure as to what the right way of handling this is.

    Concerning the captain I can attest to his inability as he kept arguing with me that he is in the right to upload a law making him the only human as a non antag.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
  3. Bachri

    Bachri Active Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Don't worry, I have no problem with the way you handled it. You were fair and you did what you could to get another opinion on it. If I had a problem with anything you did I would have made an administrator complaint to go with this. My problem is that none of this should have happened at all and I should not have been Executed for it. You can disagree if you like, but the fact that the rules don't even seem to cover this is a problem that should be resolved. This is probably the grayest gray zone I've ever been in.
     
  4. Lightning

    Lightning Devious Mime Moderator Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    60
    Byond:
    Byond Member Profile
    Tbh you were more in the wrong than the HoP, who kept your ID since you wouldn't hand over dangerous weapons so he could probably give to security. Being flashed is standard punishment for being rude and getting angry with the HoP and even though a little harsh, so is being crushed by the shutters since you did have a polymorph. You also escalated it alot on your side with the poly morph attack, all in all I would of noted you instead for poly morphing him over your ID but what is done is done.
     
  5. Bachri

    Bachri Active Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    36
    I can see why what I did was wrong, ONLY by climbing up on the HoP's table. I will be fully honest in saying that I cannot in any way even begin to fathom how I was in the wrong by Polymorphing him. I also cannot understand how I was in the wrong to refuse to give the HoP my weapon IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Wizard had just used Summon Guns when now everybody on the station has a gun. Why would I, a Chaplain who is hearing the radio chatter fill up with exclamations of fancy weapons appearing, give up my only defense to someone who is not supposed to be collecting them in the first place? I would rather give it directly to Security after they've gotten a handle on the situation, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID. By definition, they do not have any control over it directly after the spell had been cast.

    The fact that the HoP had taken my ID and, might I remind, is making it IMPOSSIBLE TO GET A REPLACEMENT, is a lot more damaging to my enjoyment than my Polymorph was to his.
     
  6. Lightning

    Lightning Devious Mime Moderator Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    60
    Byond:
    Byond Member Profile
    You do know that being turned into a monkey only let's you wear a head piece and a backpack, plus people tend to go "lol monkey let me kill it" to where even they are unable to operate alot of thing and having a weapon for the sake of having protection against future threats as a non antag is considered powergaming, I'm not saying you did wrong by refusing to give it to him im saying you didn't understand that if you had given it to him you'd have gotten your ID. Oh and considering that the staff ran out of charge and didn't recharge im assuming it was a wand.
     
  7. Bachri

    Bachri Active Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Genetics, current threat, reasoning above, and yes it was a wand as stated in the OP.
     
  8. Alexandria404

    Alexandria404 Moderator Forum Moderator Veteran Player

    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    45
    With a similar opinion on the matter stated by another mod, I´ll close this in 24 hours unless other staff have something to add.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page