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Maybe we need stronger rules for security now?

Discussion in 'General' started by Aphielanisn, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. Aphielanisn

    Aphielanisn Veteran Player

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    Exactly, a greytide rule for security and since I've never heard of a security player being banned for grey tide then I think a security version of the grey tide rule needs to be in place.
     
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  2. Shark-Sie

    Shark-Sie Well-Known Member

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    You are ABSOLUTELY right. We DO! ....
    In-game rules
    1.1: Do not grief. If you are not a round antagonist, do not cause major station damage, create fires or hull breaches, release harmful gasses, spread harmful diseases, severely harm, decapitate, murder people, trap people in places from which they cannot escape or any other action that would be considering agonizing for other players. As a cyborg with an Asimov lawset, following this rule is mandatory towards non-human players. Even if you are an antagonist, it might be a good idea to adminhelp before doing round-changing actions such as releasing the singularity or exploding a bomb.

    1.2: Do not greytide. Do not break windows to space, electrify doors, lube floors, steal important items, attack or rob random people, especially those that are AFK or braindead. Do not vandalize areas or break lights excessively. Do not block public hallways. Do not deconstruct shuttle chairs. Do not disrupt security for your own enjoyment. For antagonists, the murderboning rule applies instead.
     
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  3. Lightning

    Lightning Devious Mime

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    I thought you were gonna leave.
     
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  4. Aphielanisn

    Aphielanisn Veteran Player

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    You guys want to go on like shitcurity isn't a problem but it is.

    Yesterday I was arrested with out charges, brigged with out timer(essentially permabrigged), and then left in a cell when the shuttle evacuated. I had commited no crimes, wasn't an antag, and obeyed security's orders to the letter. The admin judged it as legit because we were in red alert, but it wasn't legit and security ruined my round so they could power game a win against gangs.
     
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  5. Alexandria404

    Alexandria404 Administrator Forum Moderator Veteran Player

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    If you feel you have been mistreated you can always make a complaint, but arguing for rule changes based on perceived misinterpretation doesn´t make for a good argument, assuming that the decision was not legit.
     
  6. Aphielanisn

    Aphielanisn Veteran Player

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    I made a ticket and it was ruled legit because our rules suck.

    It's like if you wanted to come to Yogstation to enjoy a round fuck off we got security that have to beat the bad guys.
     
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  7. Shark-Sie

    Shark-Sie Well-Known Member

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    You may be literally the dumbest person to ever make a suggestion.

    What needs to be said has been said. Security doesn't need any more or any stricter rules. Security gets abused enough as it is. People have to worry that every arrest can get them banned. How fucked is that? I have had multiple people tell me they stopped playing security because they couldn't handle being bwoinked so often.

    What we NEED is the playerbase to start respecting security, and not forcing us to take first ask questions later when we are dealing with nonantags
     
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  8. kayozz11

    kayozz11 'He wanted to make the station fire...' Administrator Forum Moderator

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    Security are awful on this server. I've lost count of the amount of time I've been jailed for no good reason (not just 1-2 minutes but like 5-10 minutes) - then you ask for a reason and the shitty hos adds another 5 minutes on for 'resisting arrest'. Or try playing Mime and be handcuffed with no access to the PDA and wanting a reason for your arrest with no other option but to break the vow to ask why am i being brigged /bucklecuffed / harm batoned by some shit sec, only for them to say 'mime broke vow' and then adds another 5 minutes on....

    Or worse - maybe finding say, some handcuffs or a pda and keeping them in your bag (for safekeeping) with the intent to hand them in or keep them safe, only to be 'random searched' after being tazed and cuffed and then arrested for having said items in your keeping. Try explaining that you found a fellow engineer's PDA or ID and you didn't want it left in the open for some greytider to run into engineering to release the tesla. The security will then arrest you for having said items.... They never listen to you, they always assume the worst.

    Quote by Mcree. No what we need is Security to stop thinking they're above every single crew member. What wee need is security to actually act like security rather than thugs.

    What we need is for wardens to stop sending people to the gulag for tapping on a window or spray painting a wall.

    I despise security and I'll never give them respect until they stop acting like low-grade antags.

    In fact even yesterday, I was attacked by a guy with a spear on the shuttle. I disarmed him, threw the spear and the goddamn security guard arrested me, despite the fact I was clearly injured and hehad seen the guy running round with a spear attacking randoms...

    Until Sec have clearer rules and less fascist bullshit (like gulag'ing someone for trivial reasons) then they'll get zero respect from me.

    ---

    I've made numerous tickets to admins, only to be fobbed off - 'it's legit' - whilst all my shit gets stolen, the shitty guards steal or break my stuff and confiscate my toolbelt despite having zero reason to do so.
     
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  9. kayozz11

    kayozz11 'He wanted to make the station fire...' Administrator Forum Moderator

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    Here's some examples of shitsec I've experienced in the last few weeks....

    Antags/ Shitlers/Greytides obviously being shitlers. You fight back because you're on red health and NEED to go to medbay. Guess who gets arrested? The guy attacking everyone with a chair? Or the guy trying to disarm him repeatedly... That's 5 minutes in the cell and then another 3 minutes in medbay... and then another x amount of time trying to find the shit that gets robbed from you....

    Report a stolen item to security. Get told to fuck off. Ok fine it's not like I NEEDED my fucking ID.

    Be an engineer. Repair breaches. Get random searched (stun, cuff) then arrested for having an RCD in your possession.

    Walk past a security guard on the way to doing your job. Randomly batoned for lulz. Get angry and tell them to fuck off. Get arrested, beaten, bucklecuffed and then an extra 5 minutes on your timer for 'resisting arrest' - press F1 to ahelp it. Get told it's legit because it's code blue/red or whatever.

    Notice a fight. Security guard gets his arse kicked by say a Chaplain. Drag security guard to medbay. Pick up his baton and cuffs. Another security guard sees you dragging a bloodied sec guard. Taze/cuff/harm baton, search - 15 minutes in a cell for attempted murder / stolen property / resisting arrest.... No admins on.

    Be an engineer. Get told to go to the brig to fix a breach. Security guard lets you in then leaves. Suddenly a shitler HOS arrives, sees you in the brig -without saying a word, stun, cuff, full strip, 10 minute timer, radio removed.... HOS fucks off and leaves you to rot. No admins on.

    Walking down a corridor. See a fight going on. Take a step back to not get involved. Security arrives, the people fighting run away. You get stunned/cuffed/batoned and brigged. Can't speak because you're a mime. Not allowed to F1 it because it's IC - get told to deal with it by admins....

    Be a playful Mime. Colouring the floor with crayon or whatever. Stun/cuff/baton/stripped left in cell with no timer..... No admins on.

    Any Security randomly attacks you. No admins on. Fight back because you're injured/pissed off rather than just taking it..... Brigged 10 minutes. Call them a fascist cunt, extra 5 minutes on timer.

    Guy keeps breaking into your department. Make an announcement of comms, Joe Bloggs stealing insulated gloves...... No reply. Ok fine. Carry on setting up the engine. Someone else breaks and starts fucking about with stuff. Message HOS on pda, no reply.
    Greytider steals more shit from your department so you kick the shit out of them, tie them up and then they're saying 'halp halp I'm being kidnapped' - guess who gets arrested?

    ----

    And all of this is fair right? At the end of the round mention it in OOC, get accused of being 'salty'....
     
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  10. OakBoscage

    OakBoscage "Retired and heavily outdated" Council Member Forum Admin +Coder+ Forum Moderator Veteran Player

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    From most of these cases it seems our current rules would have prevented this shit from happening, but there's either been a lack of admins on or the admins haven't been doing their job properly.
     
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  11. Aphielanisn

    Aphielanisn Veteran Player

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    Our rules for security are a bunch of implied things tacked onto other rules open to interpretation.


    How many sec officers have EVER been banned for grey tide? Mcree wants us to blanket shitcurity behavior that instigates crew into greytide rules and I just think that's going to be confusing and impractical.

    We need rules that tell numb-skulls specifically not to do things or else their going to rule lawyer and argue because their numb-skulls that don't connect A to B.

    I don't understand the attitude about how more specific rules are going to degrade the security playing experience. I would think if someone wants to stay out of trouble that they would prefer clearly defined rules rather than vague encompassing parts from other rules that sometimes get enforced and sometimes don't.

    My final thought is on Authority: With responsible authority comes accountability and there is only one type of authority figure that fears being held accountable. If a security player fears administrative intervention then there is probably a good reason why they are afraid.
     
  12. Shark-Sie

    Shark-Sie Well-Known Member

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    Or you know. neither side ould break the rules and we dont need to spell out every single situation ever in our rules? And youre semi-retarded if you think otherwise, and want to VEHEMENTLY FIGHT for stricter, longer rules?
     
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  13. Aphielanisn

    Aphielanisn Veteran Player

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    HAH. Check out the comedian:

    Consistent greytide and general rules lawyering. This particular round, beat someone with chairs for kicking him out (ok) complained that a cyborg arrested him for it (also ok) then proceeded to flash the borg and try to get it banned over retaliating and stunning him while arguing that a cyborg isn't able to stun someone for attacking them (not ok, also ?????). Got very dismissive and argumentative in tickets and insulted me a few times. Does this general type of thing on a regular basis and tries to rules lawyer his way out every time it happens. If this happens again the ban will be longer.


    Well gee! I wonder why a rule lawyer wouldn't want rules to be clarified?
     
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  14. Shark-Sie

    Shark-Sie Well-Known Member

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    Objection. Relevance.

    This was an assistant greytide note. Nothing more. Now kindly fuck off back to the short bus and stay on track or admit that no one else thinks you're right.
     
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  15. OakBoscage

    OakBoscage "Retired and heavily outdated" Council Member Forum Admin +Coder+ Forum Moderator Veteran Player

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    Aph vs Mcree episode are my favorite ones.
     
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  16. MenacingManatee

    MenacingManatee Well known shitmin Moderator Forum Moderator

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    Goes to the credibility of the witness. I'll allow it
     
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  17. Groudon

    Groudon SHITMIN EXTRAORDINAIRE Administrator Forum Moderator Veteran Player

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    Stay on topic and at least try to be respectful to each other @Aphielanisn and @Mcree

    Shit flinging can go elsewhere
     
  18. kayozz11

    kayozz11 'He wanted to make the station fire...' Administrator Forum Moderator

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    It's not about security 'defending themselves' - it's about security using their positions to actively ruin the game for other people. Once you're handcuffed there's absolutely nothing you can do. 99% of sec don't listen to you. 99% of sec are tossers who would rather taze, cuff and stun you and then lock you away for 5-10 minutes than listen to reason or any explanation you have.

    And yet you're all boo-hooing saying how security have it so bad.

    If it means every single sec player getting boinked and having to explain themselves for every arrest, so be it. I'd much rather that than the unfiltered twattery of security players randomly attacking people or arresting people for no good reason. Every single security player SHOULD have to justify their actions.

    Simply put - almost all security players are shitbags and until this improves and people stop arresting people for little or no reason, then I'm all in favour for harsher rules. If admins are sick of having to deal with security IC problems, then maybe the issue is not with the people complaining against sec, but maybe the issue is security is available for every idiot, sadist and fascist who wants to ruin people's games.

    The worst part is... If security ruin your game, there's nothing you can do about it. Almost all admins will take the side of sec players. If you fight back against security then it's YOU who will get banned. Not the sec guards, not the sec players.

    If security take you ID, radio, smash up or steal your equipment and then you message an admin, 99% of the time the admins will defend the security guards, which only further encourages shitty sec style. 'Oh it's legit' - being the term that most admins use.

    But if a sec guard fucks up your game and you take revenge and beat the shit out of them, it'll be you who gets banned, not the sec player. So all you people moaning about how 'life is tough for a sec player' , you need a sense of perspective.
     
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  19. Shark-Sie

    Shark-Sie Well-Known Member

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    TLDR: I smash windows and slip sec, but why should they be allowed to put me in jail for that?
     
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  20. SPACEpotato1

    SPACEpotato1 Member

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    Aren't most of these apart of the "Don't be shitcurity" rule?
     
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